The REAL poison in electronic cigarettes

I have one strong recurring theme in my posts on this blog.

It is that the attitude to smoking is that which is fouling up our vaping life and that we have been poisoned in our attitude by the Anti Smoking Industry to think that, it is all right for the lives of smokers to be interfered with - but that it is not right for it to be done against vapers. The truth is, it is not right for either smokers or vapers.

My particular fury is the way visual images and warning labels have been used. The propaganda against smokers has been relentless. Such continuous pressure and denigration  is very dangerous - far more dangerous than smoking itself. (See my Doll posts below) and vapingpoint: Something different about China? and vapingpoint: Sod it! Save vaping

Graphic warning labels on any packaging whether it is on future food, alcohol or current tobacco products is a criminal action against people. Many of the pictures on cigarette packets and ones chosen for "plain" packaging are not true and have been chosen for their revulsion effect. Cherry picking the most emotive, terrifying conditions that are not necessarily smoking related to depict smoking harm in this way is devious lying. Truth it isn't!

Traumatising pictures, visual abuse, verbal abuse and subliminals have not been tested as dangerous nocebos.

Graphic warning labels are more than just warnings. All graphic warning labels viewed over and over and over again, slogans and advertising replaced every two years with new ones accepted into the subconscious mind repetitively by smokers using tobacco products is AN ACT OF VIOLENCE, a self fulfilling prophecy, IMPLANTED disease and truly criminal legislation. They are not just unconstitutional, they are vicious nocebos.

I would like to see more investigation into the effect on smokers who do not choose to stop smoking over years and years of seeing them. This is anti-health for those already at a disadvantage, and anti-health for anyone whose eyes see them repeatedly. And it is a dreadful probability that they might be used as anti-health on foods and alcohol, or even e cigarettes!

I have raged Here and Here

We vapers need to be acutely aware not to take into our minds the negative things being spread around about vaping as we have about smoking. A lot of new lies will be aimed at us by vaping enemies (anti smoking groups). We need to stay mentally in our positive attitude to vaping. It is a healthy attitude. I choose to vape as I chose to smoke. I smoked mostly in an era that was lighthearted about smoking. A time before medical violoporn and criminal subliminals were dripped into our minds. I was ignorant and happy - and WELL

I loved smoking. Some of the best memories of my life are of smokes and peak experiences - after the births of my children, on planes to exciting places, on top of mountains, next to a lake, after meals, at special parties, and often, just feeling happy, safe and relaxed in my own chair in my own home. In my happiest times, I have smoked.

The only way to enjoy nicotine and all the comradie, social pleasure and joy of "smoking" that I once had, is for me to be a vaper. I am a smoker who vapes only because I prefer vaping to smoking. But I have not forgotten my roots. I was treated unjustly. I was made to feel of the lowest class - a leper. I was mentally violated every time I opened a pouch of tobacco that told me it would kill me. I was relegated to outdoors, and then even that was taken away by law. Do you know of ANY group of humans so treated in a civilised, democratic country in modern history?

I am a human being. I am NOT a number. I am not a statistic, I have paid for every medical treatment I get. I have never harmed anyone by my smoking and I won't as a vaper. Yet, you, you, you anti smoking maniacs, in your power of governance have been given the right to abuse me, to call me names as a smoker, an addict as a vaper, to not employ me, or tell me I might not vape unless it's with smokers, to suggest I am mentally ill, to invade my privacy, to judge me.

I am delighted with vaping. I enjoy it more than smoking. I was looking forward to some really happy times. But I fear, my naivety was short lived.

You ugly, shriveled, souless prohibitionists are now dripping your poison into society about vaping. I don't feel negotiation with you will lead to anything positive until you realise your crime against smokers has been unacceptable too.

More reading from my blog.

Particular posts on The Doll Studies and how strange the numbers are. 
and here.

These links below are some posts of mine that bang on about how our minds can be poisoned.....

2014
vapingpoint: The Toxic Cycle of the anti smoking industry
28 Feb 2014
And a terrible nocebo to anyone viewing it. Furthermore, it raises questions about blood transfusions received from smokers. I got a template letter back today from the DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH that showed my complaint ...

BAN, BAN, BAN! Vapers - vapingpoint - Blogger 

03 Jan 2014
Has anyone written to The Advertising Standards Agency to complain about the visual inaccuracy of smoke chemicals being black in the new anti smoking advert put out by Public Health and what a nocebo it is? Quit smoking ...


2013
vapingpoint: Plain packaging to be scrapped rumour, if true ...
02 May 2013
I believe that the pictures alone are an act of violence on smokers and smokers should get sicker quicker by nocebo. So, to me, "plain" packaging is a criminal act. I have made my thoughts clear to the original government ...

Beware of anti-vaping violence - nocebos inhaled to the brain
31 Aug 2013
Oman has only recently enforced criminal nocebos on their cigarette packs. In this report it seems they are fully aware of how many of their citizens smoke. It would seem to me that there will also be statistics on how many of ...

vapingpoint: Thoughts on Tobacco Control and the enemies ...
16 Nov 2013
Furthermore, they have used nocebo subliminals on Tobacco products since the Seventies to kill smokers and those in the vacinity (SHS) quicker. In other words, the damage first detected by a young doctor 55 years ago has ...

2012
vapingpoint: Graphic warning labels are viscious nocebos
16 Nov 2012
They are not just unconstitutional as the article below suggests, they are viscious nocebos. I would like to see more investigation into the effect on smokers who do not choose to stop smoking over years and years of seeing ...

vapingpoint: TC - stay away from vaping! We're OK.
30 Sep 2012

We already know that placebo is powerful and that nocebo is equally as powerful but in a negative way - from Wikipedia - "Nocebo responses are not chemically generated and are due only to the subject's pessimistic belief ...

Mark Twain - would have been a cloud chaser - yes?

 Mark Twain - forever young! And what a blogger he'd have made.

“The Moral Statistician.”

Originally published in Sketches, Old and New, 1893

"I don’t want any of your statistics; I took your whole batch and lit my pipe with it.
I hate your kind of people. You are always ciphering out how much a man’s health is injured, and how much his intellect is impaired, and how many pitiful dollars and cents he wastes in the course of ninety-two years’ indulgence in the fatal practice of smoking; and in the equally fatal practice of drinking coffee; and in playing billiards occasionally; and in taking a glass of wine at dinner, etc. etc. And you are always figuring out how many women have been burned to death because of the dangerous fashion of wearing expansive hoops, etc. etc. You never see more than one side of the question.

You are blind to the fact that most old men in America smoke and drink coffee, although, according to your theory, they ought to have died young; and that hearty old Englishmen drink wine and survive it, and portly old Dutchmen both drink and smoke freely, and yet grow older and fatter all the time. And you never try to find out how much solid comfort, relaxation, and enjoyment a man derives from smoking in the course of a lifetime (which is worth ten times the money he would save by letting it alone), nor the appalling aggregate of happiness lost in a lifetime by your kind of people from not smoking. Of course you can save money by denying yourself all those little vicious enjoyments for fifty years; but then what can you do with it? What use can you put it to? Money can’t save your infinitesimal soul. All the use that money can be put to is to purchase comfort and enjoyment in this life; therefore, as you are an enemy to comfort and enjoyment where is the use of accumulating cash?

It won’t do for you to say that you can use it to better purpose in furnishing a good table, and in charities, and in supporting tract societies, because you know yourself that you people who have no petty vices are never known to give away a cent, and that you stint yourselves so in the matter of food that you are always feeble and hungry. And you never dare to laugh in the daytime for fear some poor wretch, seeing you in a good humor, will try to borrow a dollar of you; and in church you are always down on your knees, with your ears buried in the cushion, when the contribution-box comes around; and you never give the revenue officers a full statement of your income.

Now you know all these things yourself, don’t you? Very well, then, what is the use of your stringing out your miserable lives to a lean and withered old age? What is the use of your saving money that is so utterly worthless to you? In a word, why don’t you go off somewhere and die, and not be always trying to seduce people into becoming as ornery and unlovable as you are yourselves, by your villainous “moral statistics”?"

Kicking puppies - the future for vapers and vendors

This was a comment on a guest post on my post - Brilliant guest post from Geoff Cliff - do share."When did they change the Law?" 

 

Shared publicly

The County and City of San Francisco has just handed me and my fellow brick and mortar store owners a letter with new "vaping" regulations.

1) we cannot vape where we cannot smoke
2) vape shops are now REQUIRED to have a tobacco license
3) it is now illegal to vape within a vape shop

One of the things that separates us from the other "smoke shops" is that we offer all of our juices to be sampled.  We want our customers to be happy with their purchase and not have to "roll the dice" on a new juice.

Now we'll be just like said "smoke shops" and have to put away our sample tray.

I'm so angry, I can kick a puppy right now.  (no I won't, I love dogs, that was just a metaphor)

This kind of thing makes me STEAM with anger!

The basic problem of course, is that society has allowed the anti smoking ideology to interfere in the way we live, what we buy, what we do to ourselves, how businesses are run, what they can sell, what they can advertise. They have an anti smoking mental illness that wants to overwhelm, control and re-shape the world to reflect their own dogma and creed, to fix the world in the image of their own God. What we do and how we behave is really none of their business.The Tobacco Control Industry has been so successful that it has infiltrated just about every aspect of society, politics and health. Their tactics are now used to control our behaviour in other areas - "Sugar, alcohol, (and god knows what else - coffee? tea? is the new tobacco"

The kernel, the core, the absolute centre of many problems we now have, come from this idea; the idea that Governments have the right to interfere in peoples' lives, rather than serve them.

Governments are supposed to serve the people, Public health, to provide services to the people and the medical profession, hospitals and doctors and nurses, to ameliorate suffering from disease no matter how it is caused.

Nowadays, everything is measured in statistics and costed out financially. We are told about the "costs" of smoking. This is bullshit. Smokers do not cost money - in fact they save money. It is the attempt to stop smokers smoking, that has been so astronomically costly! And yet the hardy still smoke as is their right. Strength and courage to them. Furthermore, in the UK - and probably everywhere, smokers are a cash cow that funds the NHS. Every smoker has paid many times over for his own treatment and the treatments of others.

Without any help from anyone else, smokers have found a solution to enjoy nicotine without the danger of inhaling the chemicals from burning leaves. They can smoke without the guilt and shame induced in them by Tobacco Control maniacs. We have found our way to solve the problem of tobacco. We have solved our OWN problem whether we want to quit or carry on smoking by vaping.

We are free!

But no - that's not true, is it?

Sod the lot.

Until the right of others to intrude into our personal life choices is challenged, no one will ever be free.

Some thoughts in response to Clive Bates' "Public Health Goes Positive"

Clive Bates has an optimistic new post - Public Health Goes Positive

Public Health as been polluted by the anti smoking industry. They still think and speak, and regurgitate the ideology. I have no trust in them.
 
I personally think that if the UK gets it RIGHT on e cigarettes, it could spill over so some sanity arrives in the rest of the world too.

The nub of the whole thing to me, as an angry smoker-that-vapes, is that, having forced a smoke free world on society with sinister aforethought and very dodgy science, and having convinced everyone that smoke free is cheaper than just leaving smokers alone (which it isn't) the anti smoking ideologists will never allow smokers like me, to vape in peace because vaping is a substitute for smoking.

So far, billions of pounds have been spent on the effort to stop people smoking, yet they still do. We are told we want to stop! Smokers smoke because it is pleasurable. The pleasure aspect is never discussed by the antis. The grief and desolation on quitting could be replaced by the equally pleasurable act of vaping.

There seams to be a great melancholia towards the smoking era but it is not politically correct to speak about it. It surfaces in films and TV shows. The anti smoking industry must be aware of this too. There is no way in hell, they are going to drop their stance against e cigarettes if they see them, as I do, as the "new" smoking.

We need to remember, the anti smoking industry is huge, it needs a future. It has no morals, already has permeated all thought, is being funded by the people it persecutes and big money like Bloomberg. Whatever good news appears in Public Health will conceivably be poisoned by these evil people, who are already Public Health itself.

I believe, that as the word spread about how smoking can induce horrible suffering, people will have gradually have moved away from it as they were already doing in the 60's. A smoking substitute would have appeared without the smoke free drive and safer smoking would have given people a way to continue the pleasure with less consequences. I point out that when Hon Lik invented e cigarettes, there were no bans in HIS country - he did it in response to his own father's death by too much smoking. And as a smoker himself, he didn't want to experience the same fate.

If there had been no anti smoking industry, trillions of pounds would have been saved by the UK government, and Pubs would still be with us. The economy might have been a whole lot better. The NHS might have been solvent. There would still be smokers, as there are now, but they could have lived happier lives without the shameful discrimination. After my generation died out, using tobacco might have gradually been replaced by a technological equivalent, just as pleasurable. And the money wasted on trying to stop people smoking could have been used to further real improvements in medicine.

So Public Health are still spouting made up guesstimates on how many lives electronic cigarettes will save. We have NO IDEA about how much smoking affects the population. Second Hand Smoke has been the biggest scam of the century. It has little effect on non smokers living with smokers. Public Health, or vapers, that regurgitate this nonsense, are simply repeating shameful science. Their minds have been infiltrated. They must be considered with caution. They do not speak from the place of believing every human has a right to freedom of choice in his actions, but from a place of prohibition and societal control.

Robert West - "People who stop smoking are happier"? Here is an example of  scientific waffle. Nowadays, people who stop smoking have less guilt induced by Public Health, and are not treated as pariahs. No wonder they are happier! With the amount of brainwashing and discrimination against smokers  - that is a statement that cannot be proven to be true unless we did a time warp back into the fifties when most of society smoked.

Unless vaping is treated as a consumer product  - a pleasure product, that renormalises the pleasure of smoking to those who have found a way to enjoy the pleasure with less of the danger, we will still have the righteous stamping all over our freedom under the guise of concern for our health.   Public Health is actually the hand tool of the anti smoking industry. They talk about quitting, quitting, quitting even when they talk about e cigarettes.

I want to make it clear that I, like millions of people, LOVED smoking. I now love vaping. Public Health, with all its jabbering and wagging fingers, have made the world a very dreary place by bringing ideology into medicine and forgetting all about pleasure and love and humanity.

A new blog to follow vapoteurs!

I have enjoyed the writing of Geoff Cliff. He has a new blog - HERE

It is in the process of creation.

There are good posts on there already - well worth reading.

I can't find the actual name of the blog but please interact with Geoff - the Angryoldgit - the more bloggers we get who actually understand the problems of vapers, the better!

Its a blog I'm going to watch and follow - when he gets a follow button!

Meanwhile, I'm going to take a short break from MY blog, to re charge my batteries! (no pun intended)

Stay well,
Vape well,
Keep on fighting!

I'll be back.

Dearly beloved, let us join together to remember, and to mourn

Geoff Cliff posted the piece I am publishing below on Facebook. He does not have a blog - but he should have!

I believe that the self esteem of modern day smokers has been trashed by the purposeful demeaning of smokers. We must remember that smoking now hides a worthy person, whereas, once, worthiness was seen in people whether people smoked or not. But first, before you read Geoff's eulogy, I give you the link to famous smokers - some of whom, changed the world. We must also remember the unknown worthy people, some not dead - but still alive! Like us, who were so recently smokers.
 
GALLERY OF FAMOUS SMOKERS

Geoff Cliff's Eulogy

Dearly beloved, let us join together to remember, and to mourn, the many victims of the War On Smoking. Let us take a few moments of quiet contemplation to commemorate the ultimate sacrifice that was made by them, for the benefit of mankind. Some of their names will not be known to the current generation, since their demise happened many years ago, but most shared our lives until recently, and just a few are with us still, but not for much longer. Let us at this time speak together their names, that their memory may be carried forth to future generations who will otherwise not know of them.

Let us remember Truth, Justice, Fairness, Goodness, Compassion, Logic, Honesty, Tolerance, Humanity, Good Sense, Forbearance, Empathy, Virtue, Perspicacity, Clarity, Simplicity, Decency, Morality, Integrity, Rectitude, Honour and Righteousness.

Let us remember Freedom; of Choice, of Expression, of Speech, of Thought, of Science, and of Information.

And, as we humbly remember their names, let us also remember that those who sought in the past to erase their memory have themselves been brought to account – usually violently, and with much rejoicing!
-------------------
May I just add a prapos the last paragraph of the Eulogy, there is a  a delightful story that after Hitler, who absolutely forbade smoking in his presence, and Eva Braun ended their lives in the Berlin bunker, all his generals lit up!

Brilliant guest post from Geoff Cliff - do share."When did they change the Law?"

When did they change the law?

By  Geoff Cliff

When did they change the law?

“Ignorance of the law,” they say, “is no excuse.” Is there any excuse, then, for those who make make and enforce the laws to twist the law until it breaks? The law, of course, is “a ass” as one Charles Dickens knew only too well. But how well do the authorities know their own law? Pretty well, you might think, since they write it, uphold it, and enforce it.

Let us go back to a basic principle of law, “innocent until proven guilty”. Simple, yes? It is not for the accused to prove himself innocent, but for the accuser to prove him guilty. If guilt has not been proved then the defendant cannot be punished. How does that work with electronic cigarettes? Let us see.

Smoking has been proved to be harmful to the smoker. It is suspected of being harmful to non-smokers but evidence is unclear. Expert witnesses have been called for both sides, and they cannot agree. On the balance of probability, it has been decided that there may be some possibility of harm from 'passive smoking', so smoking has not been made illegal, but it has been banned in specified enclosed public places for the safety of the public by virtue of the Health Act 2006. The provisions of this act prohibit the carrying of lit tobacco products in a place to which the public has access. Note that smokers have thus been denied their basic right to carry out a legal practice in places where they have a legal right to be, when no guilt has been proved.

E-cigarettes are not made from tobacco but from metal and plastic or glass. They use a battery to heat a cartridge or atomiser to vapourise a very small amount of glycerine or propylene glycol, which usually contains a tiny drop of flavouring, none of which ingredients are tobacco products, and each of which can be found in foodstuffs, toothpaste and many products found in every home. This 'e-liquid' may (or may not) contain a very small amount of nicotine, a plant alkaloid found in tobacco, and also in many common foodstuffs of the Solanaceae family including potatoes and tomatoes, aubergines and peppers, that are not tobacco products by any definition. Typically the nicotine content of e-liquids is between 1 and 3 percent of the volume held in the atomiser, this rarely exceeding 1.2 millilitres (ml), sufficient for up 200 'puffs'. This would suggest that very few e-cigs hold more than 0.009mg of nicotine and any one puff would not contain more than 0.00005mg. Ignoring the fact that one of the first principles of law that I was taught in school was that “the law does not concern itself with trifles”, bear also in mind that e-liquids may contain absolutely no nicotine at all. Thus the question may be asked, is an e-cigarette a tobacco product within the law? And the answer must be not necessarily in every case. So should taking a puff from an e-cigarette be covered by the ban on smoking, especially since the water vapour is definitely not smoke?

Secondly there is the question of 'lit'. There is no combustion of substances in e-cigs. The vapour is gently warmed for a matter of seconds exactly in the way that a kettle vaporises water to produce steam. And steam is all that is released by an e-cig; harmless water vapour. One would think, therefore, that e-cigarettes are outside the scope of the ban on smoking, and can be used anywhere, this being the prime reason for their popularity with former smokers.

The problem is that people want to use the e-cig to replace the tobacco cigarettes they cannot smoke whilst in places covered by the ban, as is their right as citizens; to do something which is permitted by law, or not forbidden by any existing law. But the tobacco control fascists do not tolerate anyone exercising their rights, especially if it conflicts with their obsessive desire to eradicate smoking, and anything even remotely connected to it. Thus they either attempt to use the law to enforce what the law does not enforce, or to seek to extend the law even against the principles of justice. In the first instance we see bodies such as hospital trusts applying the smoking ban beyond the 'enclosed or substantially enclosed' places specified by the Health Act, in order to include car parks, roadways and open spaces within the hospital grounds, which are in no sense enclosed. Then they seek to extend their ban beyond tobacco products to include e-cigs, thus exceeding both the letter and the spirit of the Act.

The zealots wish to go further, too. They wish to extend the law that they already exceed, to cover e-cigs by declaring them tobacco products, and by doing away with 'lit' to include any means of vapourising, and all this simply to include something that has not harmed anyone! Something that has, in fact, saved hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people from the very thing that the Health Act was intended to fight, the smoke from tobacco! E-cigs are being condemned by association with tobacco, by being used by people NOT to smoke! This is similar to treating as an accessory to murder, a bystander who tried to prevent the murder taking place by removing the murder weapon from the killer! What judge could condemn in such a case, other than one who has total contempt for every basic principle of law?

The zealots argue too that e-cigs should be banned like tobacco because the act of 'vaping' is vaguely similar to that of smoking. Like a motorist driving at 30 mph is guilty of looking like another doing 120? If a man looks as though he is making a bomb, although he is repairing a clock, is he to be considered a terrorist? Is a man carrying a sack guilty of burglary, a gardener guilty of preventing a lawful burial? The 'stop-and-search' rules will need to be rapidly re-written to accommodate such changes! Justice requires evidence of guilt, not of similarity! Furthermore, it is normal before passing a law to circumscribe anything, to ascertain whether that thing has actually done any harm, and to seek evidence of the harm done. E-cigs have caused no harm.

E-cigs have been accused of the 'potential' to do harm by 'renormalising' smoking. For many people smoking is normal, whatever the purists may believe. But when did the law ever punish someone for having the 'potential' to offend, anyway? Should we condemn politicians for the potential to make war? Strike off doctors for having the potential to murder us? Punish bank managers for having the potential to rob us? E-cigs have little or no potential for harm; they have the potential to save millions of lives, and to end the smoking of tobacco, as the purists seek! The truly guilty parties are those who prevent the good doing good deeds, not the other way round.

So, when did the law change? Was it when ideologists found that natural justice got in their way. Others have walked that route, and the world was always a worse place for it, not better!

Our learning curve - vapers growing up

We have been in a state of euphoria about our personal discovery that vaping frees us from smoking tobacco and we can escape both the persecution of a smoker, and the fear we might be harming ourselves.

We are growing up! We find now that vaping will not free us from the persecution we endured, the shame, or the guilt - we are still perceived as smokers. Vaping bans are going viral. The ploys and deceits used by the prohibitionists are used against US. It's hurtful. It's a shock.

And then, as the cold light of non-acceptance dawns, we have a new challenge. Our devices seem not to be as safe as we'd like, and we cringe every time there is a report of another explosion or fire from a battery. We hurry to educate vapers about safety - the newbie vapers  - many of us are, need education. But the "danger" is taken up as a weapon by the righteous, to  clobber us with.

We grow more. Approaching adulthood is not easy. We have to accept some unpleasant truths.

We are perceived as smokers anyway and unfortunately we have alienated many smokers by our holier-than-thou attitude which excludes them.

We ourselves are being excluded.

Our equipment is not idiot proof.

Our vapour might not be quite as innocuous as we want the believe.....

Our equipment might need modification as we learn that sub ohm vaping, top or bottom coils might change how the e liquid is vapourised, that one flavour base might be safer than another, that some flavours might be more harmful than others.

Growing up is hard - but VERY exciting!

Link to The New York Times Article.

And Dr Farsalinos reply -

Formaldehyde release in e-cigarette vapor

The New York Times story explained in detail

Quote -

The article is true and expected. We know that thermal degradation can lead to the release of toxic chemicals. And we know that formaldehyde, acetaldehyde and acrolein have been found in vapor. There is nothing new to it. However, this study found that levels may approach those present in tobacco cigarettes.

Herein, I present with more detail the results of this study. Researchers used an EGO Twist battery (variable voltage) and a top-coil clearomizer (with unknown resistance, thus unknown wattage delivery). At 3.2 and 4.0 volts, formaldehyde levels were 13-807 times lower compared to tobacco cigarettes!! At 4.8 volts, formaldehyde levels were increased by up to 200 times, and reached to levels similar to tobacco cigarettes.

The main criticism to this study is that in my opinion it is highly unlikely that a top-coil atomizer like the one used in this study would be used at 4.8 volts. At a resistance of 2.2 Ohms that would represent 10.4 watts of energy delivery to the atomizer. I tried 10 watts with an EVIC battery in a Vivi Nova top-coil atomizer, and many vapers were unable to use it due to the dry puff phenomenon.It is very important to examine new-generation (rebuildable or bottom coil) atomizers, who are more likely to be used at higher voltages. I am certain that, due to better liquid resupply to the resistance and wick, the results will be much more favorable.

Another important point is that, although formaldehyde levels can be similar to tobacco, several other toxic chemicals are completely absent from e-cigarette vapor. For example, acrolein was completely absent although they used liquids with glycerol as the main ingredient. In fact, glycerin-based liquids had much lower formaldehyde levels in vapor compared to PG or PG/VG liquids, suggesting that they are much safer to use. As a general remark, finding few chemicals at similar levels does not mean that the risk is equivalent to tobacco cigarettes.

Concerning the remarks about dripping, we should admit that dripping does not allow the user to see how much liquid is present in the atomizer. The same happens with cartomizers. Thus, clearomizer-type atomizers seem to be the future in e-cigarette use, giving consumers the ability to know when they need to resupply the atomizer with liquid.

End Quote

Choosing sides

There has been some comment on my post - Are you a smoker that vapes? Or are you an anti-smoker?

The thrust of one comment on it is that vapers don't want to be associated with smokers. I point out they have made enemies of smokers by their arrogant attitude. Like butterflies, hatched from the worm and then the cocoon of restriction, they hope to simply fly away into the land of happiness. But there are no butterflies without worms!

What once seemed an optimistic future, is being transformed by the gardeners of Public Health. They have sprayed the worms now for decades with poison. They have been unsuccessful in killing them. They have tried to count the worms in scientific ways, but I know, in my garden, there are MANY more worms than I can see, lurking in secret places. Worms have the habit of blending in - camouflaging themselves. So, the logical mind knows that the number of smokers is greater than the number counted.

Vapers who don't wish to be associated with smokers, a position I quite understand because we are flying on the wings of our freedom from tobacco, are missing the point I keep making. The point I keep making, is the worms are our friends.The worms are us! Unless we stand united with each other, the gardeners of Public Health will continue using their evil poison against the worms AND the butterflies.

We cannot go to a different garden to avoid the sprayers of poison, but we can claim the right as living creatures, not to be so cruelly exterminated.

And that's what we should be doing - united - exposing the poison as a crime against the right of living creatures to find their PLEASURE.

All the problems that vapers are fielding now, stem from the attitude of Public Health, not to simply tend the garden they have been charged with, but to form it into some kind of artificial freak show, where pleasure becomes condemned and there is little joy in the garden for a quarter of the creatures there.

When fighting vaping bans, I am going to include smoking bans. Smoking bans have been an ideological hysteria, that has now become a serious intrusion into our lives.  The banning mentality is the cement that the gardeners are trying to lay over the garden they tend so it looks nice and clean and neat, with no real life in it except poison spray for bugs, worms and weeds. And cement to fill in any cracks!

It's them or us. I can hear the cement mixer running.

Are you a smoker that vapes? Or are you an anti-smoker?

We have to start thinking straight.

I believe I am still a smoker that uses the new and better smoking system. This is the same reason I use an electric iron rather than the old ones filled with hot coals we used on the farm when I was a kid. Electric irons are clean and easy to use. They are modern. They are better in every way to the old fashioned irons.

I vape because I like it. I liked smoking too. As a human in charge of my own pleasure, I should have the power to decide which pleasures I like and how I want to perform them. I actually do not vape as a harm reduction thing. I vape because it is more convenient and just as pleasurable as smoking. I use an electric iron because it's easier and better - but if people want to iron with one filled with coals, I'm happy with that.

Yesterday on Facebook, I was trying to explain why I consider myself still a smoker to another vaper who felt vapers should DIVORCE themselves completely from smokers.

Vapingpoint Liz

30 April 20:44

Aaaaaaaaargh! We ARE smokers. We just do it in the modern way. #### said "the ban on smoking in public places was an illegal and unnecessary act of curtailment of citizens' rights. This being so, I trust that your government will immediately repeal The Health Act 2006 , and restore the right of UK citizens to exercise free choice as to their smoking habits." and I see that as absolutely correct. All the troubles of vapers stem from the disgusting treatment of smokers. The lies told about vaping and vapers are not dissimilar to the lies told about smoking and smokers. We need to emphasise our right to freedom of choice as to which way we wish to "smoke", and expose the falsehoods that anti-tobacco use to make the world "smokefree". Electronic cigarettes were invented to substitute for smoking. The attitude to SMOKING needs to be addressed and it should not be condemned - it's a perfectly valid, pleasurable occupation.Well that's my opinion. Rant over :-)

If you feel you are not a smoker now that you vape, and you think you are somewhat superior to smokers, think again. We absolutely have to get our thinking right. It is no good pretending that vaping isn't modern smoking. The thing that binds us to smokers is that we were smokers of burning leaves, but now we vape.

Personally, my day has hardly changed. I do not miss smoking a cigarette at all. In the morning with my coffee in bed. I vape. I love it. Whether you use an electric iron or an old coal filled one, the ironing still gets done!

Pleading "harm reduction" all the time is going to land us into medical regulation. Thinking we are now ex-smokers, will land us in the soup because who is kidding who? We are perceived as smokers who have not been eradicated by those who hate us, but have, before their very eyes, morphed into "vapers".

Those who hate smokers, have turned their attention to US. They are vicious.

All the stage managed fear campaign that you might have internalised if you are one of the younger generation, to hate smokers and smoking or to to believe that now you vape makes you  NOT a smoker, is in vain. It's the old smokers like me and our ilk, who have watched the terror campaigns ratchet up in our lives, that know the depths to which the prohibitionists will go.  Smoking and vaping are pleasurable to those who practise them and it should be accepted like that. There should be places where consenting adults can do it together. The smoking bans have been shamefully introduced on ephemeral evidence produced by an ideology that has infiltrated the whole world with malice aforethought.

Here is an example of how it has worked - 

https://twitter.com/cdctobaccofree/status/461591800918974465

http://www.plowsharegroup.com/TipsAdRecruitment/

Did you notice the mention of e cigarettes?

Did you notice that your doctor has to sign a legal statement that smoking caused or contributed to your health condition?

Since smoking has not, in court, been proved to cause lung cancer, and no test animal  has yet to be made to get it from smoking, and many smoking related illnesses are unproven still, and most especially the second hand smoke myth, the doctor, too, is signing against you as an ideologist.

Every problem vapers have, has spun off from the attitude of the prohibitionists to smokers. It's prohibition that needs addressing. Its the methods used in the careful brainwashing that need exposing. We see how it worked in the past against smokers and it's now being used against vapers. Why are we surprised?

The only people who might be surprised are the younger generation who have known nothing else in their new smokefree world. They have been marinated in the anti smoking program, so they don't now any better.

But the turning against vapers could make a big difference to prohibition as a whole, if we continue to expose the lies, deceit and shoddy science used in the methods of the anti smoking industries to now demonise vaping.  Vapers can do that. We have more and more science in our favour. We have not been gagged from speaking out yet. But the very BASIC problem is the attitude already rigid in the mind of society, the idea propagated on purpose, the idea that it is right to be an anti smoker.

I repeat the comment which I quoted in my Facebook conversation - "the ban on smoking in public places was an illegal and unnecessary act of curtailment of citizens' rights. This being so, I trust that your government will immediately repeal The Health Act 2006 , and restore the right of UK citizens to exercise free choice as to their smoking habits."

THAT'S the nub!